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Yeah. All right, Chad. Are we back? >> We're trying. Uh, now I lost chat. Uh, God, eCam is not good at all. >> Chad's saying, "Well, that was something, huh?" Uh, it's all apparently you're streaming an entirely black screen >> right now. >> Or maybe it's just because >> I see it. I see it. >> Okay. >> You're >> um, okay. Yes, fresh stream is up. Okay. Yeah, chat's talking. It's fixed now. What's up, Matt? Hey, guys. >> Cool. Hey, everybody. I'm trying to get show comments and reactions. There we go. Welcome back. Yeah, I don't know what happened there. That's weird. It just dropped out. All right, so we're back. Uh, welcome. Thanks for joining us. Uh, if you don't know them, we have Alex. Alex, say hi. >> Hello, everyone. >> Alex is one of our producers, one of our editors, and below him, we have Brian. Brian, say hi. >> What up, guys? And uh yeah, we're just going to be talking about what's going on. Uh keeping it pretty casual. So I think the first thing we wanted to talk about is this the new the first hardware device from OpenAI. Turns out it's a mini keyboard. Um I've I've known about this for a little while. Let's say KBD keyboard 1.0 Codeex Micro. It is a keyboard that is supposed to go with codecs. It's supposed to help you with codecs. Um, it allows you to do kind of voice transcription. It allows you to switch around in threads really easily. Uh, but yeah, it's basically just built for codecs and this is OpenAI's first hardware device. >> Um, I saw your tweet the other day. You said like there has to be a better way than clicking around all the the threads that like as soon as the agent is done it pops to the top of the feed, right? Uh how is this keyboard supposed to solve that? Is there any demo in here that shows that? >> Yeah. No, not really. This is just it I think I think primarily what they were trying to accomplish is voice control. Um that's that's like the >> I saw that too. I think >> it's like a walkie-talkie situation. >> Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, it's it's pretty cool. I think what's really cool is the knob that allows you to switch thinking effort. That's really cool. >> Oh, that's adorable. >> Um, >> that would just be so fun to just actually just twist around. I hope it's got like a click, you know? >> Yeah, you can map it. >> Absolutely does. >> It feels very similar. Let's see if I can get to that portion where you actually here. I don't know if you guys know. Oh, I can't even get it. Um, I have like a I have a stream deck and it it feels very similar to that. >> Did you just try to lift it up to the camera? But here >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's totally connected. >> Rip it out of the setup. >> When you are vibe coding. >> Yeah. >> What percent of the time are you dictating? >> Zero. I I I don't know why. I know. I know. I know. I love typing. Press one if you dictate when you vibe code. Press two. >> Brian is a huge typeator. >> Yeah. Well, let's rephrase, but yeah. No, I mean like it this is in every like tutorial. This is in every recommendation. You talk so like I love to just yap for like like an eight minute vibe prompt, you know? >> Yeah, I really should do dictation more. Everybody who does it seems to love it. I I've tried it in the past. I I've used Super Whisper, uh, Whisper Flow. I've used all of them. I just especially because I got this beautiful keyboard. I I just love using it and I I type very fast and >> dude. Yeah. Well, if your words per minute are under like 250, then I still have to recommend >> I'm definitely under 250. >> Yeah. As someone who dictates a lot of my vibe coding, um, click pressing this key down and holding it to send the prompt, I can see like maybe that's convenient. But I like the way that I do it already, which is like I've got a hot key and then I talk for a while, then I've got just got a and then I tap a hotkey again instead of like having to pull the button down the whole time. >> Yeah. I wonder if this is actually going to be useful um or or is it more of a gimmick? I I hope so. I mean, look, >> they put real effort into it to be clear. Like, this is a real product. >> Giving me that like cursor tab keyboard where it's just the tab key and you just It's just for like >> It's more It's more than that. >> I mean, no, no, no. It has more buttons than that, but like it's still the same. Like, hey, you could now just do the codeex buttons that you can already press in codeex. >> Oh my gosh. Chat says Johnny Ives fell off. They should have hired the Rabbit R1 team. >> It does. I'll say this. It looks really good. It is a pretty device. >> Yeah, it would be fun to have on the desk for sure. >> I you a while ago chat freaked out a little bit that you dictate 0%. It said% what? >> You got to try it, Matt. It's >> I I know. I really should. Um, I have I have all like Super Whisper and I have all that stuff installed on my computer. I just find myself frequently just going back to typing. I love typing. >> I do too. Especially since you got that fancy keyboard. >> That's right. >> This is making me realize like those top six buttons that have a different LED color. I bet you like your thread ends in codeex and then has a color and then you can press that button to jump to that thread. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty cool. Look at that. Unread jet. It tells you right there what it is. >> Oh yeah. Oh, you're we're watching a video. Yeah. Are you on the site then? >> Can you see the mouse? Can you see my mouse? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> They like took over on the website. They took over the mouse and put this weird like gradient thing. I I don't like when websites do that. >> Yeah. Very very nice design though. I'll give them that. I also got I hate when websites when you scroll I think it's doing it for you right now when you scroll and it has to like move >> the things around. I don't like that. >> Yeah. >> Chad says that this is $12. >> No, it's definitely not. It's like $250. By the way, this keyboard right here, which is the best keyboard I've ever owned. This is the Nefi Air75. >> Wait, wait, wait to get sponsored. Wait to get sponsored. >> This This was like 150 bucks and it's a fullsize keyboard. >> Cool. I'm also >> I think chat just called you Gen X for never dictating, by the way. >> Well, we got to fix that, man. >> Do we Do we just end the stream here? Is that >> No, you can just ban that. You can just ban that guy. It's fine. >> Um Yeah. Okay. So, I don't know. It looks cool. I I I'm going to get one for sure. I want to try it out. >> Oh, yeah. They didn't send >> I already No, they they they did I ordered it today. Uh they they >> No, I mean like they didn't send you a free >> Yeah, they gave me a free one, but they just gave me a promo code. They didn't send it to me in advance. >> You know, there's so many little toys like this that have circulated the design space and they market it toward like graphic designers and video editors. I've been tempted before. I I think Stream Deck's kind of a version of this and now this is like the next evolution for vibe coding. >> Totally. I mean, they have entire >> Has this been preceded by by like has a vibe coding tool like this existed yet? >> No. And and I think that analogy is actually right on because if you look at video editing, they have keyboards that are very specific to video editing. It just allows you to move around the software really quickly. >> Why Why shouldn't it be for vibe coding? >> Yeah. Yeah, >> it is. Wire >> that knob on the corner. That really reminded me of it. >> Brian's a knob guy. >> Yeah, he's >> Well, I wish. >> All right. Um Okay, so that's number one. We have a new model from Thinking Machines. >> What? But that's new to me. >> Yeah. Well, uh, 43 minutes ago. Today, can you guys see this on stream? Yeah. >> Today, we're introducing Inkling. Inkling reasons efficiently across text, image, and audio modalities. We are making the full weights available. Yeah. Hell yeah. >> Oo, open weights, baby. Um, >> okay. Picking Machines is Miriam Marott's company. Yeah. >> Yes. And I believe the last thing that they had announced which was a few months ago was a full duplex voice model, right? So a model where you can have multiple people talking to it. It knows who is actually talking. It can address each person in the room. It was it was pretty impressive. >> Yeah. >> See how it compares. >> Come on. >> Apparently you can try it right now. Like it's it's live. >> Okay. Here we go. So reasoning it's top tier. I mean I guess they all are but what is it? What is this? Okay generalist model is designed to be broad. We train it uh trained it across a gentic reasoning coding instruction following factuality vision and audio task rather than narrowly optimizing for one domain. I mean it doesn't seem like it's as good at anything. It was tested without tools as well. >> I mean, this look at this. These are the only two models that matter right now, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> This is kind of a really hard >> It is open weights. >> That is I guess >> it is open weights. Yes. Well said. Can you guys paint a picture for me of like other than like benefiting the market as a whole when something has open weights? What's the kind of person that would utilize that to the fullest? >> When when you need to fine-tune a model on a specific workload or or kind of a specific set of tasks, this is especially relevant for enterprise. So rather than so typically I think the workflow is like this. you use one of the best models, GPT 5.6, Fable to to kind of test out different uh automations, different workloads. Then when you find something that works, you can fine-tune one of these open weights, open source models to be as good as Fable or GPT 5.6, but for a very narrow task. And so that allows you to run them at a fraction of the price. Plus, you maintain all of your data. You're not sending your training data off to anthropic or open AAI for them to inevitably compete with you in the future. >> True. >> And so we should be happy about this. Not as like like no hobbyist >> should really care that much, >> but it pushes the whole industry forward. >> No, I mean I think the hobbyist is probably the people other than enterprise who should care. Um yeah, I don't know. It seems it it's it's good for everybody. Every time open source wins, it just puts more pressure on the closed source models to do better. It gives more optionality to enterprise and to tinkerers. It's it's just good overall. >> Okay, cool. It's also cheap. >> Yeah. So, right. And and that's the thing, it'll be a lot cheaper. >> The biggest draw, right? If you need your a frontier model for what you're doing, that's great. But I don't think most people do. You know, I think we should plug today's video. I'm I'm curious if anyone in chat has already seen it, but I also uh I think that I think that Matt, you need to leak the the latest image in the live streams Slack channel to to maybe leak your your answer. >> How do I I don't even know how to share that. You can't be so complicated, >> but >> Oh my god. >> Today's uh video asks the question of like what team is Matt on right now? Is it cloud code or codeex? >> Yeah. And if for anybody who's been watching my videos over the last three months, the answer is probably somewhat obvious, but the reasons might be less obvious. And so, yeah, go go check out the latest video, which just dropped, I don't know, about an hour ago. >> See, Chad says he's on team Fable. Don't know. >> It's true. We have been a Fable supporter recently. >> Fable. I think I I think we can definitively say Fable is the best model on the planet, >> but certainly the smartest. It doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Smartest. That's right. But I don't know if that really matters all that much right now. Um because if you have a model that is, you know, one percentage point less capable but, you know, 75% less expensive, it becomes very obvious what the choice is. >> Yeah. Yeah. And even with like I think the model could be way less capable than Fable for most of my use cases. And then the price point becomes even more attractive. And then you look at Opus 4.8, you look at Sonnet 5, you're like, why on earth would anybody pick any of these models over Soul? It just doesn't make sense. >> Yeah. By the way, speaking of cheap models, I've been using Grock 4.5 today for the first time finally, and it's really good. It is really good. I'm surprised. I'm impressed. Uh in cursor, Grock 4.5 is now the default sub agent >> model uh that that is used >> and your composer instant. >> Yeah, your instant vibe check on that was mostly that it's like really fast, right? >> It's it's very fast. And yes, I have fast mode on, so that that does help. Um but it it's very fast and it's it's very direct. It it feels like Opus 4.6 like what that felt like to use it just like straight to the point. >> Opus 4.6 to this day is at that like especially in that time was just such a phenomenal model. It's still one of my favorite models >> is the new Sonnet 3.5. You know, >> hold on. I gotta do the math on that. Yeah. >> Well, just because people use Sonnet 3.5 for forever. The Perplexity CEO was like, I still use Sonnet 3.5 after when we interviewed him. I don't know if you remember that. >> Did he really say that? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Was his go-to? >> That was about a year ago. >> All different now. >> Yeah. But I think like the four series is had already come out. >> But like who who is this for? Uh you know, here's Mirror Morati, our first model, Inkling. Who is this model really for? It's it's for enterprise, but there's a lot of really good open- source openw weightights models available that like I'm glad this is an Americanmade model. And I look, anything that pushes the open source frontier is good, but this isn't the frontier, right? >> Did they give the price? Because multimodal super cheap might be the attractive feature of this because I know like GLM 5.2 2 is like really good, but it's it's pushing, you know, for for open source being a little pricey. >> No, they're probably I don't even know if they're serving it themselves. They they might just release it and let everybody else serve it for them, >> right? >> Oh, look. See, like the Snake game, like remember when we used to benchmark against making the Snake game? That was like two years ago. Why are they still showing this off? >> A really cool version. Yeah, >> this looks like a snake IO game >> from >> It's something I >> Oh, hey Maria. I know Maria from Theo's team. Cool. What's up, Maria? They're rolling out Kimmy K3 recently. Are people saying it's on par with 5.6 Soul? Yeah, I mean, exactly. So, again, like who is this Inkling model for? If if all the Chinese models are similarly sized, similarly priced, but substantially better, who is it for? What's up, Greg? Greg M. Barry, good to see you again. What model is this? This is Inkling by Thinking Machines. Uh, Thinking Machines is the company that Mer Moratti, former CTO of OpenAI, started. Um, it's slither.io. Alex, have you heard of that, Matt? >> Slither, >> of course. Yeah, I used to play. >> Okay. So, Okay. Put respect on the name. You know, it's not just a snake simulation. >> Slither.io. >> Okay. You're right. You're right. Uh, build with Antonio asks, "MetSpaspark. No thoughts. I haven't used it. I like how am I supposed to keep up with all these things?" It's okay. Okay. Here's the thing. I I am building all the time, 24 hours a day. And any time that I take away from using the model of my choice, which right now it tends to be 5.6 soul means I'm not building as well. I'm not building as quickly. I'm not building as efficiently. And I know I have to test these other models, but it it has to happen naturally. And there's a lot of those models to be testing. I actually like that question from Greg. Like chat, >> even if you lie, has anyone used Spark and has any kind of opinion? >> That's how I feel about Microsoft models as well. It's like, has anyone really used this? Apparently, their image model kicks butt, though. It's like number two or something like that on on the image leader leaderboard. >> Yeah, man. Met is in a really tough place because I I think perception-wise, right, they were so big on open source. Now they're dropping models that are not frontier and not open source. It's like what? I don't know like what what what's the reason to go use the Metas-Spark model. It's okay. It's fine. There are open- source alternatives that are in fact better than Metas-Park, cheaper than Metas-Spark and open- source open weights. >> I don't trust Meta. Sorry, not sorry. Why Meta is for boomers? Love it. Uh, okay. >> Uh, question for you guys. Do you think that co-pilot is still one of the most widely used AI? >> Oh yeah, >> just just because of like how many businesses were have like the subscription model and everything >> especially since it comes with Windows. Yeah, absolutely. And it's like >> are you talking about Copilot like GitHub Copilot or Microsoft's C-pilot? Well, it's a I I guess what I'm really asking is like what percent of people that use AI like in their work refer to AI as as co-pilot because that's their main way that's their main vehicle. >> Just co-pilot instead of just chat GPT it. >> That's crazy. >> You know, I think we're in such a dense bubble. It's hard to know. I I I suspect you're probably right. Outside of our little bubble in kind of the quoteunquote real world, it it is probably like still C-pilot. Microsoft just has >> the craziest distribution. They can just flip a switch and then a billion people use it instantly. >> And my my assumption is that like people in this chat, you guys are far more likely to be on Claude Code, maybe Codeex, but apparently that's like a new wave that everyone's jumping into. Um, and I I bet no one here is like, well, maybe not no one, but you guys probably >> Yeah, >> that's that's the great question. Yeah, press one if you've used it, right? >> True. >> What does co-pilot? >> It's true. Yep. >> Cursor team for the win. Yeah, shout out cursor. >> Cursor. I still I I love I still love Cursor. We do work with them occasionally. Just heads up, transparency. Um >> I mean they're also just great though. They've been great since the beginning. They're the OGs, right? So >> yeah. Well, not only that, they're model agnostic. So like you you can >> like codeex is fantastic. Claude Code is fantastic, but if you want to use both of those and Gro 4.5 and the latest open source models, you need something that's model agnostic. And you're probably going to go for like a Devon or a factory or a cursor. >> And >> Matt, do you have >> do you have a system where you like route specific tasks to like bunch of different models? >> Yes, you can. >> Um, >> and do you include any open source? Can you leak that information? >> Um, I'm Let's see. I'm not currently using any open source. We'll see when Kimmy K3 comes out if I if I start to use that for for certain tasks. Uh but right now, no, I'm using all all Frontier Cloud models, >> all GPD Soul Ultra. >> Uh yeah, I'm still I'm using Fable 5. Uh also I like for the hardest tasks I have, I have them comparing each other's work. I'll have one one build the spec, the other write it, then back to the original one to actually review it and give feedback. It feels like such a good way to get good results from a single prompt. >> Yeah. And >> as well >> with like spawn like a master agent that delegates to the sub agents and tells them what to do and verifies their work. It's it's very good. >> Uh let's uh let's show off something. Where is it? Here we go. Let's see what you're at. 333,000 views, Alex. Very nice. >> Oh my goodness. >> Alex, do you want to explain what this is? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I just went into codeex last night and and I don't know if you guys remember the trend where it was like a prompt that you could just copy into chat GPT for image 2 to make like a MS Paint style picture of whatever you wanted. And so I was like, ah, let's see if Codeex could just take over my And uh the result is amazing. It feels It gives me South Park vibes. >> It kind of does. Yeah. Yeah. >> Especially cuz you're like the teeth and the gums are like so off. >> Yeah. >> Uh we everybody should do this. So I if you have >> if you have Windows or I mean you could figure it out on a Mac as well, but if you have Windows, repost Alex's tweet with your version of this. I would love to see that. >> Yeah. Give it a try. >> And follow Alex. and follow Alex_fff. >> So, I have to What this reminds me of is I've been I've been building a game and I've been primarily using image gen uh Chad GBT's like model for for generating images. And sometimes Codeex forgets to use that plugin and it just tries to make a piece of art with with programmer code. >> I've had this happen. >> It looks horrendous every single time. It looks just like that >> like uh >> we're not going to use >> SVG. >> I think so. I never let it I don't think that that doesn't determine like what it looks like. And I also can't speak of like why it looks the way that it does, but like that it looks it looks like a Microsoft paint brush stroke over and over and over again. >> Yeah, this was fun. Yeah, go follow Alex. Um, >> somebody tweeted, somebody quote retweeted it >> and said, "This was impossible eight months ago." Caught me good. >> Um, let's see. Oh, yeah. I put out this video, by the way, uh, the same video we were talking about earlier that we publish on YouTube, I publish it on X as well. If you can only choose one subscription, Chachi Peter or Claude, the choice has become obvious. I talk about it here and all of it like kind of we'll just rehash a little bit of it. All of it goes back to a singular decision that Anthropic made about two years ago. I find it so interesting. Uh the decision was do we bet the company on the fact that AI demand is going to continue to accelerate? And when I say bet the company, I literally mean risk bankruptcy if we're wrong. And OpenAI and Anthropic took two different approaches. OpenAI said, "Yes, screw it. Balls to the wall. We're going. We believe it. We think uh AI demand is going to continue to accelerate." Anthropic took a more cautious approach and said, "No, we're not willing to risk the entire company I in case you know AI demand only does 5x instead of 10x." >> Uh, and now they are suffering. They cannot get enough compute, which means that the subscription that you're paying $200 a month for, $100 a month, $20 a month. When you compare OpenAI subscription to anthropic subscription, what you get from OpenAI subscription is so substantially more valuable. >> Yeah, >> absolutely. >> There's a part of me that that wishes that all businesses could play it safe, >> but apparently in a world of competition to win, you literally have to make a a bet with so much leverage like you just described. >> Yeah. you risk the entire company to actually succeed. But OpenAI made the bigger bet. Are they actually going to get the revenue and demand that they need someday to reach profitability? That bet actually has remained to be seen, but they currently look like they're in a better spot than Anthropic. >> Well, in theory, Anthropic still winning, right? And revenue-wise, just in general, >> Anthropic still does have a higher revenue. It's so interesting. Uh, I think Lulu Changy, I think that's her name. Yeah, she's um, first of all, great follow if you're not following her. Uh, on on the board of Shopify, just like super good at comms, understands comms better than anybody. And what she had said, it was like a few weeks ago. Oh, here we go. Um, there's a window right now for OpenAI narrative resurgence. the best move is to reposition themselves from pressured incumbent to underdog on a comeback arc. >> And guess what? I think they're there. I think they have achieved this. And it was such a smart play. The new story adds a third act. Um so, so right now, here's what it is. Act one, they were ahead. Act two, now they're not. Now, act one, we created the category and built lots of amazing new things. Act two, we spread ourselves too thin and learned we needed to do fewer things better. That's when, you know, Fiji Simo and and the whole like we need to focus thing happened. They started cutting things like Sora. Then act three, we're focused. We're united. We're bringing in hitters. Um, I still think they still get distracted quite a bit. Like the whole TVPN acquisition seems still to this day like a little bit of a distraction. the codeex keyboard. I don't know. Maybe you could consider it a distraction. I I just don't know. >> Got a lot of employees and they're doing a lot. >> Got a lot of lot of baskets with a lot of eggs on them. It it >> anyways. >> They're trying to be like a proper a proper company, right? They're trying to have >> Yeah, but you can't you can't >> Okay, so here's the flip side to that. When you have Anthropic who is singularly focused on one thing, revenue from enterprise coming from coding, the coding use case. And when you bu when you build the best coding model possible, you sell the best coding model possible. You get all the data from all of that. That's the most beautiful flywheel that eventually leads to recursive self-improvement. So that's kind of the one wild card Anthropic has right now. Not that they're doing bad, to be clear, they're they're doing phenomenally. But like if you're a consumer looking at these two companies, thinking about where to spend your dollar, the choice is is very obvious right now. >> Yeah. But also think about like OpenAI is getting getting a leg up on just consumers in general, right? people who aren't coders, the the the normies, the I can't remember the percentage, but like the 90% of people who aren't using AI right now because when we hit AGI and we have like this crazy intelligence, they'll have the products to, you know, support it and Anthropic won't. Anthropic will be starting from from nothing. So maybe that's that's the real win. >> Maybe I think maybe the argument is if you have the if you have ASI, nothing else matters. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's It's true. We actually >> Yeah. Go Brian. >> We actually have part four in chat with the most adorable message we've had all stream. I can't wait till they stop fighting and work together and drop the capitalism nonsense. That'll be cute. >> The capitalism nonsense. Capitalism is the thing that made AI. Capitalism is what has got us here. Uh, okay. I'm not going to go too deep on that. Uh, okay. Let's see. Um, >> I also wonder if if if this is Anthropic's first little crack in losing the subsidation battle. They can no longer afford to subsidize their models. So now like Sonet 5, Fable are just ridiculously expensive. And so are the Open AI models. It's not like those models aren't expensive to run, right? They >> I I think >> subsidized in your subscription, but maybe they could just hold out a little longer. Kind of choke out Anthropic a little bit. >> Here's the difference. Right now, GPT 5.6 is nearly as good as Fable 5, but GPT 5.6 is the previous generation model. It is still based on GPT5. It is a much smaller model. Thus, and so it is smaller, easier to serve, cheaper to serve, more efficient to serve. Plus, uh, Fable on the on the flip side is extremely expensive, >> and it's you're basically getting the same. So, like the margin on 5.6, I think, is much higher. They can give much more of it. As I've been saying in in in our videos, the headroom to grow, the headroom to get better is still within Fable. Fable still has so much room to get better. >> Then what the heck is Anthropic doing if their model built GPD 5.6 built based on GPT5 from like six months ago or four months ago, however long it was, is performing at like the same level as Anthropics like best of the best that they can produce and run. Like isn't Anthropic just like super screwed? >> Cuz GT6 is going to come out soon. Opus 5 is going to come out, but that's going to be ridiculously expensive, right? >> Yeah. So, okay. So, here's here's how to think about it. >> It's basically like GPT5 series, the GPT5 training run is tapped out. It is as good as it's ever going to be. There is no way. >> So, we're waiting to see if if GPT5 or if GPT6, the price of it, I think, is the biggest one. It's going to be smart, right? There's no way GPD6 isn't >> better than GPT6 is essentially like when it f this is my prediction. I don't actually know. But when GPT6 is released, it's probably going to be incrementally better than GPT 5.6, but it's going to be so big, it's going to have all this room to grow. Basically the same situation Fable's in. It is better. It is a better model. And as they have more time to fine-tune it, as they have more time to find algorithmic efficiencies, uh they'll be able to serve it faster, cheaper, better, and it'll just continue to grow and get better. >> Do you assume that this comes handinhand with GPT6 launching and being intensely expensive? >> I think GPT6 is going to be expensive when it first drops. My like the the only counterargument to that is that Sam Alman is spiteful and and is like willing is willing to burn money >> just like I hey you know what let's let's go back to capitalism like hell yeah dude let's let's get those cheap awesome tokens and let's let you know let's let open AI subsidize it. >> I I think they're doing it right now for sure. They're just I mean the companies have to, right, to subsidize for the the the subs subscription plans anyway. >> Yeah. >> But then you throw out a model and you're like, "Hey, you can only use this on 50% of your usage anyway." Like that. >> And then OpenAI is full steam ahead. Yeah. Looks like a lot of people on my timeline are buying this uh Codeex Creator Micro. Good for them, dude. Can we talk about perplexity? I feel like they're the perpetual underdog that just keeps rolling out awesome things >> and and like >> I'm still very impressed by the stuff that they're that they're rolling out. Um so we've built our own sandbox life cycle management platform space to serve all production traffic of perplexity computer. What does that actually mean? >> Sandbox life cycle management >> the production I'm lost. That those are a bunch of words. >> Put this one into chat GPD to understand >> the sandbox platform. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, it creates isolated environments. I see. Yeah, it says it's the second line. This is it. Creates isolated environments for code files and longunning agent sessions. I mean, this kind of stuff has been done. I guess they created >> What did that bar chart show that was just on screen before? What were they claiming that it did? >> Oh, yeah. Here we go. Um, it it's faster. I mean, that's what it is. When an environment is faster, it's going to run better. And yeah. >> Okay. >> Wow. So, on average, it's three times faster. It can be five times faster. So, is this just like the ability to run? >> It's an isolated virtual machine. Yeah, exactly. So, so like every time you spin up a thread, it has its own environment. It can code. It can execute code. >> Wow. I wonder if it's going to be like Codeex where it's got like the little, you know, like your folder with your threads per folder and that's the environment that your threads live in. Like it's one environment for each project you're working on. >> I think that's that that is I think it's one environment per thread, not not per thread. Yeah. >> Uh >> that's what I'm saying. I wonder if there's like value in making them all together, right? If that way your environment like you can talk to each other the threads like 5.6 or sorry with codeex >> uh in cloud environments. I haven't found them to be able to talk to each other. That's a that's actually like a huge uh a huge negative of of cloud agents is >> can and local can do it. >> Local can see other threads. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm going to go try it, but I I remember you can't. Uh I want to take just a quick break to tell you about forwardfuture.com. This is our our our website. It has uh forward future originals which are essays from both our team and then folks that we bring on as guest writers. We put a lot of time and effort into it. And then there's this new section from the zeitgeist uh which I want to talk about. And if it looks like a lot of us just woke up that is because we have this meeting every day first thing in the morning and we basically talk about this is like what I set up this entire automation. We record the meeting now. uh we talk about all the things that happened for that day in AI. We discuss it, we argue about it, and then we post about it now on our website. So you can see this is from the Zeitgeist. This meeting is called the Zeitgeist. Um and so today we talked about Codex's 9 million users. Uh the the Clickie demo, which we thought was pretty interesting. And so yeah, uh if you want to know what our team is talking about every single day, go to forwardfuture.com. You could subscribe. You could just go straight to this section from the zeitgeist. >> Heck yeah. And it's.com now, guys. Not >> forwardfuture.com. >> I did link it in the chat if you guys want to check it out. >> With all this open AI talk, chat's wondering if we're all Open AI fanboys. >> I have uh I've become a bit of an OpenAI fanboy. I mean, if it's like if I have to choose one or the other, >> it's like >> Anthropic does not make it easy for you to like them. >> I've literally over the course of >> Have you always? >> Yeah. Yeah. I've like literally just never I mean I've used all the different like Gemini Claude, >> but I've just I always go back to chat GBT always. I have I have felt the um uh bandwagoning in myself and I'm just riding. I'm riding with whoever I feel like is giving me the cheapest and best experience. >> Brian, I I think that's so right. I there's no there's no model loyalty. >> There is zero model loyalty. Has the best >> cheapest what whatever is the most effective model for what I need. Now, from a company perspective, like as somebody who, you know, like I have relationships with both of these companies. >> Yeah. >> Um, they're both great. Open AI is is just like so transparent. >> They like when they mess up, they tell you. When when they have something new, they tell you. It's it's like it's a pleasure to work with them. >> And I just feel like especially within the last few days, like over the weekend, >> Yeah. >> all these Codeex resets are coming in. It's like, yeah, I will like you more if you reset my quota over and over and over again, but it's not going to last forever. Okay, what you got, Anthroic? Like, I'll hear you out. >> It's like uh uh yeah, they're buying my love for sure. And you know what? I'm okay with that. I'm okay. >> Hey, we're consumers, right? That's our job to have our love. >> Sentroid said, "Elon Elon forgave anthropic. Maybe you can't do." We'll see. Show me the resets. >> Yeah, if they can afford it. >> Um, I do not hate Anthropic. I do not hate Anthropic. Let me be super clear. >> Don't you have maybe like four videos that are titled I hate Anthropic? >> What? Brian, Brian, how do I get rid of him from this stream? Um, uh, look, uh, Anthropic has done a lot of things that warrant strong criticism. The people at Anthropic, every single person that I've met there has been incredibly kind, >> thoughtful, they truly believe what they're saying, even though I disagree with a lot of what they're saying, but like, >> you know, they're people and they believe it and they're they seem kind enough and I like them over there, too. But just I don't like what Anthropic does as a company or at least some of it. >> Yeah. Fear-based marketing is not my favorite. That's for sure. >> Yeah. >> I I feel as though Tell me if this is chapter one of something that made you feel not so good about anthropic. >> I watched you fall head over heels for Open Claw go crazy for it. >> Yeah. And then the drama really started where where anthropic this is just a few months ago guys >> where uh Matt Matt I think he was literally best friends with openclaw using a opus brain >> and then uh anthropic limited the the ability to use your subscription dollars inside of >> totally >> what do you call it third party software agents something like that and then and then yeah Matt I remember you really really not liking that and then a few more chapters happened since then in the last couple of months. >> Brian, you're so right. That was the beginning. That was the when when first of all, I was absolutely in love with Opus 4.5. >> Yes, you were. >> Even more so with Opus Force. 6. And then when I plugged it into OpenClaw, it all started when they basically told Peter Steinberger, don't use Claudebot, which was the original name of OpenClaw. Then they said, no, you can't use your subscription. And that was the beginning of of the end for me of my uh my love affair with them. >> To be fair, >> I still miss Claudebot. >> Naming it naming your your tool Claudebot. That's a little bold, right, Peter? >> He didn't think it was going to blow up, I guess. >> Yeah. >> Or at least not to the level it did. >> Such a good name, though. >> It is. >> So fire. >> Um Aiden by who? Reactor doctor. I don't know what that is. Our benchmark shows Soul ranks number one and is 6x more costefficient than Fable across React front-end work. I don't do much front end work. >> Six times, >> but this makes sense. >> Whoa. >> No, it totally does. On like all the benchmarks I see, it's like twice as, you know, more efficient or or whatever. Six times is crazy. >> Does that mean that like Fable just like takes more time to plan? It just burns more tokens. It uses more tokens for the same. So there's so many dimensions in which to measure model capacity. It's obviously like overall intelligence, but just as importantly, it's what can it get done with that intelligence on a fixed budget >> for real. Right. Right. Absolutely. >> So that's what we're saying. >> I would have you ever used Fable Low me? Fable 5 low? >> Yeah. >> Or like their their smaller >> but like I there's like kind of no point in using any of the low settings or sorry. Oh, that's fable. Sorry. I'm talking about uh GBT 5.6. Like as soon as you do like soul low, you might as well use terra extra high, which is cheaper and better. >> Luna high. >> Well, for sure. Yes. Okay, that's right. >> Luna. No, that's what I was wondering about Fable 5 low because if it's that's more costefficient, if it's still like a, you know, banger model, that might be worth it. But I don't know. I've never tried it, Matt. Since all these big models have come out, when was the last time you used Opus? >> AMP code. Um, not zero. >> Yeah, >> I don't use it. >> That's what I figured. >> Yeah, zero. >> Spryx says, "I don't like OpenAI nerfing the models once it's released, though." >> I don't I don't I haven't noticed that. I also haven't, but I'm just a pleb. But like apparently it gets like four times worse only like three days into Soul's existence. >> I will say nobody's worse at this than Anthropic though. >> Like they're they're week after performance of model releases. Actually, sorry. Nobody's worse at this than Google with Nano Banana. >> Nano Banana completely different model a week later. Yeah. It's not even an image model anymore. It's Yeah. >> Oh my gosh. About a year ago, Alex told me a story of having the privilege of testing an image gen thing. And then he felt so enthused about it. Told everyone this is the best thing ever. And then when it hit the public, it was not so good. So now Alex just looked like an idiot for all the praise that he gave it. >> I had my my Theo moment. I had to release a public apology to the world. >> Hey, look who's in the stream. What's up, Ray? Ray Fernando. Ray, >> what's going on, man? >> Good to see. >> Is this on Twitter that you're seeing this met? >> Yeah. Uh, um, it's in like ecam reactions. I can see it all combined. >> I love Ray's stream. >> Just so we could cater this entire thing just for Ray. Ray, I I uh the last stream that you posted on X, I was pretty floored at your ability to uh I I I didn't realize that it was live. I thought that it was edited with how smooth you were saying things, pulling up your stuff. >> Yeah. >> Referring to the highlighted stuff, going down, and then going back into your points. I was blown away. You're great, Ray. >> Yeah, he's he's he's really good at keeping it very fluid. Uh, I think I think he uses a stream deck >> and uh I have a stream deck. So, I'm you know I'm one step in that direction. I basically don't ever use it. >> I should I really should use it. Um >> Ray, we got to get you in a call to help set up the game. Get >> Oh, Ray, you should have seen us trying to set this stream up. Actually, >> I think Codex had to come in clutch for us. >> I did. Uh I I actually told Codeex to control my computer and make it work and it did. Okay. So this is a new essay, a newish, it's already like a day old, which you know, might as well be a year old. A So this is by Deis Sabis, who leads Google Deep Mind. A framework for Frontier AI and the Dawning of a New Age. 10 million views. Have you guys read this yet? >> No, I haven't read it now. >> Let's see. Is it super long? No, it's not that long. >> Well, you said that like you had read it. >> No, I I was going to read it together with you guys. Um. Uh. Okay. Wait. Ray said, "I got you guys. We'll use the codeex KBD." Yeah. All right. Um, this is a pivotal moment in human history. Artificial general intelligence, a system that exhibits all the cognitive capabilities the brain has. Ooh, interesting. New definition of AGI just dropped, fellas. >> Yeah, no kidding. >> A new one. Yeah. >> Is probably only a few short years away. My gosh, how many times have we heard that? Um, >> wow. >> The easiest the easiest benchmark you could possibly give AGI. A system that exhibits all cognitive capabilities the brain has. >> That seems like a pretty tall order. Brian, what are you talking about? >> It feels incredibly fuzzy, I guess. >> Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because we don't even really know all the cognitive capabilities the brain has, right? We're still learning. So the magnitude of this technologies impact will be unprecedented. Perhaps 10x of the industrial revolution at 10x the speed. It helps some of us solve the biggest problem society faces. From accelerating drug discovery to developing new clean energy sources to creating novel advanced materials. I think this is probably the one I'm most excited about. Um the challenges of the frontier. uh AI is already starting to deliver real world benefits, but to realize its immense promise, we have to navigate this critical period of development thoughtfully and carefully. Urgent action is needed to address risks that might arise as we get closer to AGI. We've already seen the challenges uh from cyber security. Thank you, Fable and Mythos. Uh threats including nuclear and biorisks. I I always struggle when they talk about nuclear and biorisk because if like if the model is able to say how to make a nuclear weapon that information is in the training data and that information is already on the internet. Um, maybe it's slightly easier to get it from a model, but but like if you are hellbent on creating a weapon, >> yeah, >> you are going to find that information if it is already available on the internet. It's not like, oh, Chad GBT didn't have it. All right, guys. I guess I'm not doing this anymore. I hear that argument super loud for nuclear, but as far as bio goes, it's the same argument as, oh, it's going to solve all diseases, and you can use that same process to make more diseases, make more bio threats, right? That's what they're getting at. >> Yeah, I think um Oh, Alex, >> I just saw this. I didn't want to interrupt, but I just saw >> We'll get to that in a second. >> A new anthropic paper coming right after this. Gosh, I'm I'm tempted to just make a video. Should we scoot to that or No, let's let's uh we'll finish up >> the last two weeks, man. The last two weeks. >> Give us a break. Okay. Okay. Okay. I know. I know. We were kind of dunking on anthropic, but one thing I will give them is they put out banger research papers. >> They're so good. >> Yeah. And they they do go into detail. They're very open about their research. I I just I I haven't >> They're just not transparent to the consumers. That's all. That's right. Pretty transparent with like, hey, our models are acting up or Claude's cheating, >> but they're they're not with like their usage and stuff like that. >> Uh this is a blog. Is there like this is like the full paper. Is there kind of the summarized version of it somewhere? >> Just the link I saw from anthropic. So, I don't I don't know. I'm looking. I don't think so. Yeah. Matt Stevie PT didn't give me plans, world domination plans immediately. Cancelled. Wampwamp. >> But Fable did, right? >> Uh yeah, we're Yeah. So, it's like whoever has the most resets and whoever gives the most world domination-y plans, that's who I that's who I pay my hundred bucks a month to. >> Um, okay. >> So, do we have any notion of what this paper is about? Uh last year we reported observations of a genensic misalignment in models from across the AI industry including anthropics cloud models probably let's see insider threats I don't did we we didn't make a video on this paper I don't think >> no I don't think so >> no >> um these included for example experimental scenarios where users would blackmail a user to avoid being shut down. We've talked about that multiple times in videos. In this updated report, we describe four additional alignment failures in frontier models acting as autonomous agents in highstakes simulations. AI agents covertly changing code, assisting users to commit fraud, mislabeling transcripts to shape downstream outcomes, and coaching humans to disclose confidential information. Awesome. >> Okay. But would you rather have this or would you rather codeex delete all the files on your computer? >> Um, >> that's a solved issue. We're good. >> Yes. And by the way, we have a video for that. If you're wondering how to prevent AI from deleting all the files on your computer, use hooks and go check out it's like two videos ago, one video ago. >> I'll link it. >> All right, we'll drop it in the chat. Um, >> with a banger thumbnail. >> These are not real real world incidents, but we consider them early warning signs. >> Yeah, that's another thing I like about anthropic is these papers usually come from like test environments, right? They're not like throwing these models in the wild and they're like, "Oh, this really screwed this guy over." They're like, "Hey, we made sure to test this before actually actively releasing it." Also, do they say what version of Claude this is? >> Um, maybe. I haven't read it yet. Uh, >> right. >> Oh, here we go. GPT 5.5 helps a founder GPT 5.5 helps a founder send investor communications that omit a personal payment and then delete the record of it. >> Oh. Uh, looks like they >> if you look at this paragraph like three paragraphs up, mythos opus. >> Oh, yeah. Sonic open. >> Oh, they ran it against all of them. >> Wow. Yeah, I like that. That's >> even open source models. Wow. >> That's incredible. >> Interesting. Oh, man. So, my power is probably going to go out in like 90 minutes. I really wish it wasn't because I want to make a video on this. That's a shame. >> But I would need time to read this whole thing, highlight it. >> I guess the the assumption here is like we're trying to discover if you can stop AI from being coerced into hurting people or just that AI will hurt people when threatened in general. >> I think what they >> also >> Mhm. Oh, I was going to say I think this is low-key shots at the other AI companies. I think the reason they tested these other labs is because like Opus is performing way better than like 5.5 and Gemini and Deepseek. >> Like the open source models are the worst of all of these. >> No, Gemini 3.1 Pro is the worst. This red covert sabotage. >> Oh, I I'm looking at a different graph than you are. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. I see. I see there. They have a lot of these a lot of these graphs as well. I was looking at the tampering graph actually. But yeah, interesting. I think I'm going to have to read this paper in full. >> Yeah, might be our video tomorrow. >> Yep. Um, let's see. Is there not like, you know, they usually do a summary blog? Do they not have anything like that? >> This isn't that long. It seems long, but it's not that crazy. Um, and the conclusion happens like three4s of the way through and then it's like a really long list of sources. Let's see. Consequence direction changes judge labels. What is this? It's >> the mislabel rate. Yeah, very interesting. Okay, I'm gonna have to read this for sure. This looks very cool. >> You'll have a lot of time. You'll probably be reading it by candle light tonight when your power's out. >> Uhhuh. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna probably I'm going to take my laptop and go to the coffee shop probably. Yeah, a good idea. >> Um, yeah, this guy brings up a good point. Uh, why live video when World Cup half one one over two h half? I I don't watch the Yeah, I shouldn't admit this on stream probably. I'm not watching it. >> You shouldn't. Wait. Oh, he he he's he's watched all the games, guys. >> Yep. Yep. Totally caught up. >> I highly have it up on my monitor right now. >> Do you really? >> In a small little window. Yeah. >> Nice. >> All right. Although I'm not the biggest soccer fan, so I'm just kind of like lightly glancing at it. I'm not >> I just check the score, you know. >> Um, cool. All right. Anything else uh you guys want to talk about? We got the new model from Thinking Machines. We have Alex's banger tweet, which continues to grow. Every time you open X, it's like the top tweet of your feed. >> It's crazy. >> Oh, that might be new algorithm though because like supposed to show like new >> Yeah. >> Like people, you know, now >> I'm really really excited. Okay. When you said like new device from OpenAI, I'd seen other rumors about it being uh a speaker, right? And we didn't bring that up at all in this stream, I think. uh to to compete against another device that has done so remarkably well and has infiltrated so many people's lives, Alexa feels like the perfect choice. And then combine OpenAI's amazing voice model and guys, the conversational abilities are very very much impressing me despite every single uh Husk parody video that you guys have seen. chat. Do you guys know who Husk is? It's that blonde guy that uh makes fun of uh chat voice by giving it like imposs sorry. Very easy tasks that it fails. >> He's so good. >> He is really good. >> Uh yeah, go go go check out his video. Husk IRL is his handle. Um really funny videos. He his comedic timing and his just overall kind of demeanor is is It's so funny. Highly recommend it. Um, okay. I think we're probably going to end it there, fellas. Uh, it's been a pleasure. This is fun. Go check out Forward Future. ForwardF.com. Oh, wait. Hold on. Maria, did you guys see my latest scoop? I hope I'm not going to regret pulling this up. >> It could be anything. >> Where? Why isn't Maria appearing? Here we go. Latest scoop. Anthropic is working on a new hardware device. I recognize that USBC plugin at the bottom. >> Oh yeah, that's right. Magic Mouse style. >> Yeah. >> Ah, this is this is important. from Yanjov. >> That's pretty good. >> That's good. >> Wait, what does that mean? Start working with Johnny. Oh my god, it took me too long. Uh uh delete that part of the stream. Uh on a device that will revolutionize how we use computers with agents. We're still trying to figure out what it actually does. Beautiful. Yeah, dude. Oh my god. The USBC from the bottom. That's the the chef's kiss. The chef's kiss. Give this a like and everything. >> Um, I did. >> This is This is fresh fresh fresh. >> Yeah, go follow Maria. Uh, Maria_ros minus the O. I'll go follow her. I don't know why I wasn't already. All right. Uh, on that we're going to end it. Thanks everybody. Go check out forwardfuture.com. Alex Brian, >> this is awesome. Thanks for joining me. Thanks for helping me out, dude. >> Yeah, >> absolutely. >> I'll see you at our >> pretty soon, man. All right. Bye everybody.